User blog:Madaco/the legality of club penguin cheating( also known as hacking to some)

hello all,

If the comments on this escalate from a freindly debate to a fight, i will close the comments also if anyone wants a quote of what you said to be removed, please tell me, i will gladly remove it, if you want something added, if it is relevent and passes criteria of what quotes i will put here, i will probably add it(iff you ask)

something that somewhat buggs me about this wiki is that all club penguin cheating (also (incorrectly?) known as hacking) is believed to be illegal. while i currently believe it to be legal in most cases, I however welcome reasons why you may think that it is illegal, as if i am incorrect, i wish to know, however i will respond to your comment with my logic, If you agree with me, then i would appriciate it if you respond to comments with logic of it being illegal. so the comments of this (if all goes according to my plan) should have a frendly logical debate on weather clubpenguin cheating (the type against their terms and conditions) is legal or not. firstly i would like to get this out of the way. If a cheating program allows someone to get a free membership(server side, i dont know about client side) IT WOULD BE illegal(there have been programs that would do this, but i dont know if they  work anymore), but otherwise, i dont think so.

what bugzy said "I never said anything about the legality of WPE PRO. WPE PRO isn't illegal on Club Penguin; you'd just get banned. Using it for online crimminal acts would be illegal, but for simple game packet sending, nope. BugzyTalk 0"

what seahorse said

"Almost all Trainers Steal memberships, which is illegal. Everyone else pays money. Getting free Memberships is Illegal, because it is stealing, which is against the law. Even if you do not use that feature, The program is still illegal, since it has access to the feature. Also, WPE PRO is Very illegal, and can even get you sent to jail. The Rest could get you a small fine. "

my responce to seahorse

you said "a note to madaco: Trainers ARE illegal. stop trying to start your own roumours, it will make more fighting" i would like to know what part of it is illegal. sure it doesnt comply with their terms of service, but that doesnent make it illegal. i can quote this "Game cheating, most notably in the game Club Penguin, is 100% legal in all countries. Note that while it is legal, it is against the Club Penguin Terms of Service" from a source that you disaprove of, yet does share accurate information and is a wiki, please inform me of a law that they break, because i have yet to come accross any law that they break, despite my telling every one that they are legal, (i am aware that programs that can be used to cheat on clubpenguin can be used for illegal purposes, but using them on clubpenguin is not) if you know of any law in any nonfiction country that apears on any map that was ever sold, please inform me of this law. other people have told me what you told me, i responded with something very similar to this, no one gave me a country, no one even responded. name one person who "had their computer confiscated" name one group that was shut down due to illegalty(cphq doesent count, they payed their host a small ammount of money, disney has a somewhat large influence, disney asked, it didn't cost the provider much, so they were happy to comply) please give me any evedence that it is illegal anywhere. pretty please with a pancake on top

seahorse also said this

"Almost all Trainers Steal memberships, which is illegal. Everyone else pays money. Getting free Memberships is Illegal, because it is stealing, which is against the law. Even if you do not use that feature, The program is still illegal, since it has access to the feature. Also, WPE PRO is Very illegal, and can even get you sent to jail. The Rest could get you a small fine"

i replied "ok, you claim that most trainers have a free membership function, riiight, I checked they dont. i only ever heard of ONE trainer that supposedly did that. you also claim that if someone uses the program but not that feature, they are still breaking the law. this is false. let me explain to you my email analogy: there are two people, Bob, and alice. Bob sends Alice a picture of his cute puppy, through an e-mail service. now you should agree(if not maybe you should go to the doctor(this means that i assume you agree))that Bob sending Alice a picture of his puppie is fine and legal. So Bob never does anything illegal with a email service, however Alice has another contact, Steve. Alice emails steve and asks him for a expensive games .exe file, (Alice does not own the game) Steve sends Alice the file. now look there, would you claim that that is legal? I doubt it. But wait, does this mean that Bob's use of the E-mail service is illegal?! of course not. that is my email analogy (also aplies to owning an artilerie device, but i thought that analogy might break some rules) So i think you should agree that i have defeated your claim about if one parts illegal it all is. Now for your argument that wpe pro can get you in jail, actuly, it can, but so can a butter knife(more easily a stake knife(please do not give me an infraction for what that might imply, it is meant to mean injuring not major injering)) Wpe pro is completly legal when used on clubpenguin, bugzy said, and my dad implied that it is legal on clubpenguin."

please note that i have found pages on this wiki that claim certain trainers have membership features, some of these trainers i have found confirmation that they are false(such as the one that has rooms made in pbrush, clubpenguin uses flash) but some of them may have been real. but still the majority of them do not have this illegal feature.

europea said this "Dude Believe me. All Hacking is Illegal. My parents say so! Look, I'm trying to solve this in a friendly way and trying to fix this argument! But you have to trust me! All Hacking is illegal! Thanks! Have a nice day! Buh-bye!"

my responce "I think that you may be mistaking cracking for hacking and visa versa. cracking is getting into a system that tries to prevent access to the cracker. almost all cracking is illegal(but not cracking into your own computer, however pointless that would be). Hacking on the other hand can mean many things, for example it can mean editing code until it works. an example of a hack(one of the definitions) is to take apart a disk drive and get the scanning lazor and attatch it to some circutry and put it in a flash light to get a "lazor gun" that can burn through electrical tape, this is indeed hacking, and i doubt you would think this illegal. (also, I currently think that clubpenguin cheating is not really hacking, but im not very sure about this(this is the reason i put hacking in my previous arguments in quotes)) clubpenguin hacking is not very similar to any illegal forms of hacking that i know of.(meaning that i know of no illegal hacking that is similar to clubpenguin cheating, not that I dont know if clubpenguin cheating is similar)please inform me if you dont undestand something i say.(sometimes i express things unclearly) your turn, have fun.Madaco 03:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)"

I took out a part saying something related to the debate, and not the subject of the debate

seahorse said "Deal with it. Hacking a Copyrighted site is ILLEGAL. --seahorseruler |Talk (EditCount) Yoshi! 02:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC) Also, hacking often damages software in CP. You could be fined for that. It is illegal to hack a site that is Copyrighted. WPE PRO is the most illegal, and will get you bigger fines and even possibly jail time, since it is Advanced hacking. (start madacos note>"advanced hacking" yeaaah, my dad often uses a very similar program for his job, when hes trying to get serbers to "talk to each other" --seahorseruler |Talk (EditCount) Yoshi! 02:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)"

i said that he just added the word copyrighted, and that copy right gives rights bout copying. bugzy agrees that wpe can be used to do illegal things, but he agrees using it on cp is legal. do not go against this part because bugzy pwns.(you can go against this part, but i do not suggest it)